[aaloa promoters] Java related discussions

Francesco Furfari francesco.furfari at isti.cnr.it
Tue Nov 23 21:03:59 CET 2010


  Dear Jesus,

I realised only now the Oracle lawsuit against Google, it was in August 
during my vacation :-)

>   the Outsourcing proposal of Google (mail, Ipvoice, office
> SW suite,..etc) is quite competitive (probably better than the IBM one)

can you send me some pointer on that.

>> .... and embedded systems are at the core of any AmI scenario  :-(
>>
> Here is the interesting discussion and the link with our
> projects/initiatives, ....I feel that the embedded systems are more in the
> terminal part of AmI rather than in the core. Embedded systems are needed
> to reach and interact with the physical world. However, there is not much
> difference between the knowledge and intelligence building process in the
> physical world and in the digital one (in terms of building relations among
> entities to reach conclusions).

Well I was referring to the central role of the devices more than the 
technological aspect.
Maybe I didn't understand your answer. Do you think that cloud computing 
solutions, as virtualization of the user resources accessible 
everywhere,  will be the prominent aspect ?  I'm not sure about this. 
Years ago people talked about the radio programs killed by the TV.  I 
think cloud computing will be only another way to interact with the 
digital world, but not the only one  or the prominent way (I hope). 
Personally I'm more interested to exploit the locality principle of 
people traversing different smart spaces and discovering in each of them 
local services (Location Based Services) ... it should scale better ...  
In this sense embedded devices (i.e.mobile phone) are important because 
they are centered on the user,  they are the probes that help people to 
inspect the physical world, maybe more important of the intelligence 
embedded in the environment ... the problem is that the internet access 
is not free, and only in a world freely connected you can realize the 
AmI scenarios. The Romans built an empire with roads ;-)

Francesco




  Il 22/11/2010 14.09, jesus.bermejo at telvent.com ha scritto:
> Hi Francesco,
>
>> I cannot explain the move of IBM to OpenJDK otherwise. They
>> rethought their licensing policy ...
> The press release came shortly after the official answer from Oracle to
> Google. ....and the Outsourcing proposal of Google (mail, Ipvoice, office
> SW suite,..etc) is quite competitive (probably better than the IBM one).The
> barrier for Google IT outsourcing offer for non-SMEs is not technical.
>
> Obviously an OpenJDK+Eclipse(and something in Apache) position is under a
> much better control than the Apache+Eclipse one. …and Oracle does not seem
> to have any problem for assuming the “bad boy” role; They already launched
> a pay version of the JVM, the patent threat is in the air and the GPL
> license has relevant business implications that reduce the acceptance by
> the industry.
>
>> .... and embedded systems are at the core of any AmI scenario  :-(
>>
> Here is the interesting discussion and the link with our
> projects/initiatives, ....I feel that the embedded systems are more in the
> terminal part of AmI rather than in the core. Embedded systems are needed
> to reach and interact with the physical world. However, there is not much
> difference between the knowledge and intelligence building process in the
> physical world and in the digital one (in terms of building relations among
> entities to reach conclusions).
> This movement has many implications when we are entering in the petabytes
> era
> ...and Java dynamic modularity issues (linked to OSGi) are being discussed
> for Java 8.
>
>> By the way I'm not optimist like Stephen Colebourne about the
>> results of the vote.
>> In the end many will vote on the technical merits of the JSR.
> I agree,..but I also feel that many (probably out of the JCP EC) will
> realise that this is not a JSR discussion.
>
> Best regards,
> -Jesus-
>
>
>
> promoters-bounces at aaloa.org escribió el 21/11/2010 19:17:10:
>
>> Francesco Furfari
>> Enviado por: promoters-bounces at aaloa.org
>> 21/11/2010 19:18
>>
>> Para:
>>
>> "promoters at aaloa.org"<promoters at aaloa.org>
>>
>> cc:
>>
>> Asunto:
>>
>> Re: [aaloa promoters] Java related discussions
>>
>> Jesus,
>>
>> in my opinion it is enough simple to say that ASF is right,  and the
>> behaviour of Sun/Oracle undermines all the Java community process.
>> If you see the old voting on Java 6,  many partners like IBM, RedHat
>> and Intel agreed on the position of ASF.
>>
>> But now, what is not clear to me are the moves mainly at IBM and
>> then Eclipse. With my limited understanding of the strategies of the
>> big players, I could interpret the events  as Oracle was afraid of
>> the parallel market opened by Google/Android. Harmony project was
>> used mainly by Android project and they built a non standard JVM, so
>> this could be the "undisclosed" truth , they want to have control on
>> the java specification and ASL2.0 is too permissive.  However the
>> point is that the same problems of Harmony there will be with the
>> OpenJDK project, that is GPL based.   What does Oracle think to do
>> with OpenJDK? if they provide a TCK  license without the restriction
>> imposed to ASF for the embedded system, then it is clear that  it is
>> a war against ASF or their license model.
>>
>> I cannot explain the move of IBM to OpenJDK otherwise. They
>> rethought their licensing policy ...
>>
>> In the justification of the Eclipse vote they said: "If Java does
>> not start to progress as a platform, it will die."
>> I fear that if they slow down the spread of Java on embedded
>> systems, then Android or even other languages will prevail.
>> .... and embedded systems are at the core of any AmI scenario  :-(
>>
>> By the way I'm not optimist like Stephen Colebourne about the
>> results of the vote.
>> In the end many will vote on the technical merits of the JSR.
>>
>> Francesco
>>
>> Il 20/11/2010 23.57, jesus.bermejo at telvent.com ha scritto:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As you probably know interesting Java 7 discussions are running
>> outside. This is probably one of the interesting discussion tracks,
>>
>>
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/blogs/mike/2010/10/13/java-7-vote/
>>
>>
>> At a personal level, and taking into account Java 8 discussion
>> topics and trends, I feel that this agreement
>>
>>   http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/176988
>>
>>
>> http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32708.wss#release
>>
>>
>> combined with the Oracle position concerning the TCK are impacting
>> importantly in the future of our projects and/or initiatives.
>>
>>
>> Is there any point of view on this topic?
>>
>>   Best regards,
>>
>> -Jesus-
>>
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